In this podcast episode, John interviews his client Mike, who has achieved remarkable weight loss results through their coaching sessions. They discuss Mike's weight loss journey, his previous beliefs about weight gain, and the emotional factors that contributed to his overeating. Mike praises John's unique approach to weight loss and his ability to simplify complex issues surrounding emotional eating. They also emphasize the importance of addressing underlying emotional and mental factors in order to achieve sustainable weight loss. Mike shares his experiences with embracing failure, managing stress, and making practical changes to his eating habits and physical activity. He also discusses his rediscovered passion for music and his upcoming performance with his band. Overall, Mike credits coaching for his transformation and highlights the invaluable benefits it has brought to his life.
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Weight loss coaching - Join the Weight Loss Freedom Academy today
To inquire about 1 -1 Coaching with John - email John at john@oakesweightloss.com
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Watch the Easy Way Out on Youtube
In this podcast episode, John interviews his client Mike, who has achieved remarkable weight loss results through their coaching sessions. They discuss Mike's weight loss journey, his previous beliefs about weight gain, and the emotional factors that contributed to his overeating. Mike praises John's unique approach to weight loss and his ability to simplify complex issues surrounding emotional eating. They also emphasize the importance of addressing underlying emotional and mental factors in order to achieve sustainable weight loss. Mike shares his experiences with embracing failure, managing stress, and making practical changes to his eating habits and physical activity. He also discusses his rediscovered passion for music and his upcoming performance with his band. Overall, Mike credits coaching for his transformation and highlights the invaluable benefits it has brought to his life.
Buy my book! 75 EASY: the ultimate challenge for personal growth
Amazon US
UK
CA
AU
Weight loss coaching - Join the Weight Loss Freedom Academy today
To inquire about 1 -1 Coaching with John - email John at john@oakesweightloss.com
Check out the EASY WAY OUT Blog/Newsletter site
Join the free "Lose Weight with John" community
Watch the Easy Way Out on Youtube
John (00:00:00) - Hello and welcome to today's episode. Today I have an interview with a client, Mike, who we work together for a little over a year and, well, you're going to see what the results were. It's pretty incredible. He has a lot of great stuff to share. He's a smart guy, a thoughtful guy who has a lot of wisdom to pass on to you. And now yet another person who's come back from the other side and has taken their life back and has found healing, which is remarkable. I mean, it's his story is really unbelievable. Makes me super excited about doing this work. Before we get to that, I just want to mention a couple of things. Still trying to get people into the easy weight loss club. This is an inexpensive way to get a bunch of course work and some biweekly coaching with yours truly. This isn't like my full coaching program, but it's a way for people to get started. People need some structure and a place to I don't like the word accountability, but you know, a place to have friends and share what you're going through and tell people about your progress and your struggles and just to not do it alone, like, let's do it together.
John (00:01:05) - That's really what this club is about. It's not so much a coaching program as a club, a membership that gets you a bunch of resources, a little bit of guidance from me, and hopefully we'll grow this thing into a powerful incubator for healing and growth. And of course, on the heels of that weight loss, there will be a link to that in the show notes. So check that out. If you listen to this interview and you decide, Hey, I'm pretty interested in this coaching experience, I want to find out what working with John looks like. You can email me at Joe at Oaks Weight loss.com. John at ox oaks weight loss.com and just subject line coaching and interest in coaching coaching something I don't know what you're talking about and just ask for some details and then I'll ask you some questions. See if you'd be a good fit for what I do. And then hopefully we'll set up a time to have a chat and kind of go through it. So without further ado, here is Mike's story about his incredible transformation.
John (00:02:08) - I guess we'll just dive in. First off, you're looking good. Thank you. Well, where's your weight at right now?
Mike (00:02:14) - 366.
John (00:02:17) - So that's like £30 lower than when we last talked.
Mike (00:02:21) - Is it even? Is it even that? When was the last time we talked? I don't know.
John (00:02:25) - It's a couple months ago.
Mike (00:02:27) - Yeah, probably about a year ago. About £15 a month. Yeah. I mean 15 of 18 somewhere around there.
John (00:02:35) - Wow. And so just for context, I guess, go ahead and just introduce yourself. You can use a pseudonym. You can give yourself a fake name.
Mike (00:02:42) - Like I think I have during when I was born in the late 70s. I think I have the most common name for like a 5 or 10 year span. So my name is Mike. I guess I'm this. I'm in the middle of the work with John for over a year and a half, maybe was about a year here and my highest weight was I lost some weight just through the typical dieting before meeting John, and it just didn't work.
Mike (00:03:16) - But my highest weight was 540, I think when I met you, I was 495 or something like that for.
John (00:03:24) - 94 or something like that. Yeah. And then you went up to 535 or so.
Mike (00:03:29) - Yeah, it was around there. My I lost, I lost over £200 twice before in my life and then it just was on the same thing I was just doing. Like if I do Quito, that'll be the thing that fixes everything. And I lost some weight doing it, mostly because I thought it was the magic pill. And then when it first time some kind of adversary stress came in, my life reverted back, right. And gained a bunch of it back. I knew there had to be something different and at that point identified it as pretty exclusively emotional eating and then sought out help. And John was the one that kind of worked. All of his social media was the one that made the most sense from the way I think. Can you describe.
John (00:04:18) - The two times that you lost £200 before? Can you describe for everybody like what you were doing to lose that weight?
Mike (00:04:25) - Yeah, I think it was.
Mike (00:04:28) - It was all kind of practical things. Not a lot of like psychological things, right? So it was like the first time it was when I was very young and like my I was still living or maybe it was 18 or 19 or something. I was still living with my parents. And I think like my. My my mother was just cooking every single bout of food that I put in my mouth and I wouldn't. So it was like. Like. It was restrictive. She was probably eating 17 to 2000 calories a day. She was. Had also battled with emotional eating and her weight. And she went through the Overeaters Anonymous route. So she had done some of one of those abstinence based plans and one of their kind of food plans where it's like very strict and restrictive and you can't eat this and can't eat that. And then she just put me on that. So I lost so much weight, obviously. But then I didn't have even one tool to when I left the house or moved on with my life, I didn't have a single tool to be like, How do I eat now? Guess it's order three pizzas.
Mike (00:05:42) - It's like I'm cured, right? The second time was probably maybe 6 or 7 years after that. And I was a vegetarian at the time. I just ate literally the same thing every day for like 18 months. Like I'd never deviated from that food. And so that also was not it was a sustainable right. It was like.
John (00:06:05) - Two burgers a day.
Mike (00:06:06) - So I'm like, that's two veggie burgers a day, like four cups of steam veggies, and then a big tall glass of V8 and then twice a day like for. And I would go, you know, I worked at a restaurant. I did not even, like taste any of the food. You know, when you're cook supposed to taste, I wouldn't even do it. I just be like, I guess that's enough salt. Like, gets up. I'm not going to be the one that suffers from that. So it was. I think that there's one thing that that taught me was that there's ways to do this without developing tools, but not in my experience.
Mike (00:06:38) - None of them are like lifelong. Right. So if you have the problem that got you in the situation. And you find a solution that's not addressing that problem, you're just going to have that problem. Right? So and that's what happened. And then every time I gained the weight back, it would just be more than before. Right? I always say that there's a lot of like health and weight loss stuff out on the Internet. And those things are to some extent helpful for some people. Right. But like. You don't get to be £540 by like. Eating between meals and like doing all of the oh, on the weekends. I really went overboard. It's like, that's not, that's, that's like, you sure you put on an extra £40 in your 40s that way but that's not the like that I was living right like I wasn't it would have been a Tuesday afternoon and I'm ordering $100 and GrubHub and eating it all in one sitting and then sabotaging my day.
John (00:07:35) - Oh, deficit of understanding or knowledge.
Mike (00:07:38) - Oh, like I you know this, but I'll say this for listeners. Like I'm like a very analytic person and I over researched things. It's like part of my job and and looking look into things that I read all I can and watch the videos and do all the things in a way which it's like I knew how to lose weight for a practical thing. Just like make sure you find a calorie deficit and try to move around a little bit more. It's not rocket science, really, it's just a matter of working with you and the kind of getting it, seeing what the root of the problem was from which it was between my ears. That's the issue. That's the issue. If you have if you're £100 overweight, £200 weight, that's that's the issue is like like your coping mechanism. That's all it is. And it's really interesting from working with you. To understand, like after the end of a year, working together, you have a different view with the world. You look at the world in different eyes and so funny to be like.
Mike (00:08:35) - It's not. The coolest thing is when you're like eyes are open a little bit, is that like it's so common? It's so normal like. Like using food as a coping mechanism to deal with like not feeling great or like emotions is one of the most normal things in our society, which made me feel like it's like, Oh, maybe I'm a big dude. I'm six four, and I've always been like, if I when I was at my lowest, I'm like 220. I'm like, people are in like 34, 36 pants. And it's like, I'm a big guy. But there's people who are if there's. I took you to the extreme, maybe, but there are people who are even like £180, £100 overweight on a smaller frame or like the same. But it's so common and so normal. So it's like a little background on me and where I came from.
John (00:09:27) - Yeah, it's astonishing the amount of shame people carry around as individuals when this is very much a public health issue. And people it's also more than just you can throw a rock and hit somebody who's obese, but there are also people who look like they're in good shape who are dealing with emotional eating as much or more than other people.
John (00:09:46) - They have other ways of balancing out that may not be so healthy, but they're also healthy ways to balance it out. These people are often really into working out, and so they burn off the extra calories that they eat, but they're still emotionally hurting on the inside the same way as somebody who's £400. So it's actually even more widespread than people would think just by people's average weight and that that side of things. So it's even more than just like a public health crisis. It's deeper, especially when you start looking at the mental health aspect. It's much wider even than the massive obesity crisis. The other thing I wanted to mention is just that. If the listenership matches the demographics of who comes into my lose weight with John Facebook Group. Then about half of people listening to this have lost £100 or more at some point in their life, and a quarter of people have lost £150 or more and 75% have lost 50 or more so. I say in this in the I'm writing a book. I don't know if I told you that, but in there I say like, listen, if losing weight was about losing weight, we wouldn't be heavy because most people who are heavy have lost the weight before.
John (00:10:58) - If losing weight was just about ones and zeros, ones and twos and willingness to do it, very few people would be obese. There's clearly something else going on, and that's what causes a lot of people to get in their heads about. Like, is it glyphosate, is it GMOs? Is it what are they putting in our food to do this to us? Because people can recognize on the one hand, like, yeah, of course I'm eating too much, but also like I don't feel like it's 100% my fault. And I think people don't know how to reckon those two things. So where were you at before we started working together? What was your mindset around? Sounds like you were pretty aware that it was emotional, but did you have other concerns, like thinking that it was carbs or some other.
Mike (00:11:42) - Oh, yeah, that's that's an absolutely like I said before, before, maybe, I don't know, maybe eight months, a year before we started working together, I went on keto thinking that like, Oh, it must be the car, Like it must be the carbs, right? Like the carbs are messing with me.
Mike (00:11:59) - And at the time two I was like five. I was 40 in my early 40s at the time and I was like £540. I would like I was keeping tabs on my blood sugar, right? Like it was pricking my finger a lot and my blood sugar was high. It was like, that's something that I have ever had to deal with. It wasn't. I was right on that borderline of like, pre-diabetic diabetics. So I was like, Obviously it must be the carbohydrates and the sugars, right? And then that's another thing is like from my upbringing too, and I think a lot of the 80s and 90s when the a lot of the diet crazes really kicked into high gear. And my path with my mother going through Overeaters as they were, that mentality of is like what's ruining your life is wheat and sugar like that's our from whatever program she was following under that under that umbrella.
John (00:12:54) - So even back then they were on that train I remember.
Mike (00:12:57) - Oh yeah. Like she was not when she was trying to be abstinent.
Mike (00:13:01) - It's abstinent based treatment. You can't eat wheat or sugar, and then you have to eat only the things you write down before. And it's like, that's a great just like that's a great diet you're cutting out. Like a lot of like you you'll lose weight. Remember asking my mom when I was young that I was I was really young, like I was maybe ten or something and was like, what happens if you eat sugar? You die. It's like I did. Because the way that she presented it to our whole family was that like, these are big for me. I can't do this. And I was like, the way I had understood it was, Oh, no, mom's allergic to sugar and she's sugar. She was going to go into shock or something like, but so I think that and obviously, obviously by the time a couple years or however later I figured out, obviously she wasn't. But that kind of mentality of like it's the food salt, it's the food salt and like think that's one thing I learned with you.
Mike (00:13:59) - Is to. So there's no bad foods, right? Granted, there's, like garbage foods, Right. But, like. But but as far as, like, bad as in in in our perspective, in, like, the emotional eating flavor, there's not bad food. Like I've I've emotionally eaten or binged on the healthiest foods and like doesn't matter. And I think the one thing that if I could if I could. If I have anything to pass on. And listeners are that you hear that, right? Like on YouTube, there's 1000 videos they're talking about like they're not about food. It's just calories in, calories out. And like, you just have to do this thing. But like, I think the one value that a tent that you bring that a ten minute YouTube video doesn't is that like for me being an analytical person, connecting the dots and being like, starts here? And then your next step is here. And then at the end, it's like, this is what you do when you react.
Mike (00:15:00) - And it's like. Just having it like spoon fed to me as far as like, here's the fur, here's where to start. Here's the first step. I'm like, And I remember you breaking down on, like, on my blackboard, like drawing diagrams and pictures like, all right, this is where we're starting. And it's just that was the thing that kind of clicked with me. Because it's all about internalizing these ideas, right? That's the thing. It's like if somebody could tell me the ideas. There's YouTube videos, there's online, everybody's saying the things. But like if you don't internalize those ideas and being like, Oh, that is actually a thing, it's a and it makes sense to me the same way as like the same way as like when you're learning a new language and you're like, oh, I'll. Olah You know, like almost it's like, but then when you're actually communicating with someone like on a street, if you love a new language, it just clicks. It's like, I got this.
Mike (00:16:00) - I understand that it's a new language. Yeah.
John (00:16:02) - It's like I like that language analogy. It's the difference between learning vocab and learning the language and understanding the rules and how things go together. So in case people are wondering like what you're talking about, I think what you're saying is that like oftentimes I, I'll hit you with some perspectives that you're like, okay, that's out there, John But a lot of stuff is okay, Here's there's ten things you've heard and they're all true. They're more true for some populations than for you. But even if they're all true, we still don't know which order of operation to go in. What's the most important thing? What builds the foundation of the house? And because we're hit with such a volume of information, we don't know how to order things. How do we make a foundation? What do we use to build the walls? What do we use to roof the put the shingles on the roof? And so it's like the understanding, the order of yeah, it's like order of operations and math, like the order of importance.
John (00:16:57) - And that way you can forget about 80% of what's out there because it's like, no, I only need to focus on this one thing right now and that's going to move me massively in the right direction. And I think that creating things that are simple is part of how we help ourselves out of these very complex emotional worlds.
Mike (00:17:18) - Right. Agreed.
John (00:17:20) - What was it about my social media that jumped out to you that made you go, This is different.
Mike (00:17:28) - It was on TikTok, right? Like, that was like And then, of course, after that, I just didn't hire some guy off TikTok. Like, I looked into it after that. Right. But I think it was you had the morning walks. Right. And you did your morning walks where you were like breaking different elements on. And I liked that. I liked that there was you were like you were analytical with it. You were going a little deeper on all the issues because like, if anybody who's struggled with emotional eating, I'm sure 100% of the people listening to this podcast are is that you've spent some time thinking about it.
Mike (00:18:01) - It's like part of your life and it's like it's not just like you. Even if you don't even identify emotional eating, it's like you've thought about like, what's wrong with me when like and that's kind of where all the shame comes is the there's thinking. But I think that what drew me of all the YouTube videos or all the social media posts, all the Instagram stuff, I think that like there's always like the used car salesman, like I can help you do the thing. And then you it's like, Yeah, you're the one. It's like you're the guy. But like, think that you were presenting like, this is the way think about things. I've been there before. I've also overthought all of this stuff and like, I think that you presenting what you found and you're very like spoken and you have your thoughts organized when you do those videos. And I think it was like, Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And I like the fact that you're you spend the time connecting the dots to be like, This is the makeup, this is the blueprint of if we're going to figure out how to deconstruct something, let's look at the blueprint and see what the most effective way, what screws are, the most effective takeout to do that.
Mike (00:19:10) - It's like you're looking at where you're the way that you analyze the different kind of feelings and the functional side as well. It's like we're looking at the blueprint to figure out what the most efficient way to do this and think that we had talked about that before is like when you really get to the root of it, it's so easy. It's like. I remember a couple of times there was we had an epiphany where I had epiphany where it was just like, Jesus, if I knew it was this easy 20 years ago, it's really like, Oh, all of a sudden I fell off this long. It's like but it's you got to know. You got to come at it from that angle before you're able to fall off the law. And after looking at the blueprint and the whole thing just fell apart. Mission accomplished.
John (00:19:53) - And I think for context, that feels that way because pulling the pin out is really when you realize that there's most of what's holding up, your compulsive behaviors are very strategically placed misperceptions and delusions and false perceptions and false beliefs.
John (00:20:11) - And as you start to pick through those, you get closer to the more central ones. And then you can identify sometimes single beliefs, single delusions that were installed via trauma. And once you can bring those into the light, into your grounded present reality. When you hold a lie up to the light, it disintegrates. It just loses its power. It can still. It can. Once you see that the sky is blue, someone can keep whispering in your ear that it's bright pink. But that has no power anymore. And when you see the power of these things fall away, it's. It is. It's shocking. And a lot of people. I call this the duh effect. A lot of people tell me that they have at some point, like this epiphany that feels like they've cracked open the secrets of the universe. But then they think about the words that they just said and they're like, That actually is very simple. But that's what. Mental health. That's what mental illness is. A lot of the time is simple things that are true, getting twisted up into these very complex realities that are not really representative of reality.
John (00:21:20) - So yeah, once you come out of delusion, everything feels simple and it's actually over complexity that's keeping us stuck. And that's why it makes me so mad that so many programs seek to make weight loss even more complex because the profit incentive is to corner the market on a problem. So one of the best ways to do that in a situation where weight loss is actually fairly simple, is to overcomplicate the issue and then tell people that you have the solution to this very complicated issue. And that's why people continue to see weight loss as far more complicated than it is. And every single time somebody like you just got to do this super fat burning exercise or you just got to take out this food or whatever the BS is. It's not only taking people away from the the nuts and bolts, it's also taking their attention away from the inner stuff that's actually driving all the weight gain to begin with. And that, yeah, you can take out lectins, you can take out gluten, you can take out wheat, you can take out sugar, but it's like you leave somebody with that same brain.
John (00:22:19) - You take away sugar, you wire their jaws shut, they'll find something else. It doesn't matter. And this is why so many people who get weight loss surgery end up with secondary addictions, which is like, I can't eat a lot anymore. But sure, I can drink enough wine to feel pretty good. And so they start going on a liquid diet, so to speak, or they start smoking or they just find other ways of. Yeah, having these coping mechanisms when food's taken away. And that's, that's a sad thing, but it's ultimately I'd say.
Mike (00:22:49) - Yeah, I would say that like this is the thing. It's like it's not easy but the thing that. The we like the the process. Like we work together for a year. And how long was it before it actually clicked with me? It's like it's not easy to deal with the actual problem. It's like if you really go back to the blueprint and the deconstructing the machine metaphor, it's like pulling the pin is easy. But we looked at that blueprint for seven months.
Mike (00:23:18) - It's like, Which part is it? It's like, let's do our measurements, let's figure out let's do stress. You know, like like, let's figure out which pin it is that needs to be pulled or pulling. The pin took a half a second and then there. Bob's your uncle. But but I think that because we were talking about everybody, all the other programs are all they all are trying to address the weight loss. And it's like that's not really what, you know, their weight loss in the symptom or the way the weight gain is a symptom of something much bigger. And then just you need to deal with the root thing, the weight loss. Easy, just like. Just have a calorie deficit. And honestly, like from someone who's been on 1000 diets, done keto, done the research, looked on all of all of the hormones and making sure that that's the new thing now is like make sure you get all your hormones in check. Like I was like, that's the that I've looked at everything and I have not done any of those things and have only done just logging my calories and making sure I'm under certain amount.
Mike (00:24:25) - It's like and I've incorporated exercise, but before I even did that, I was like, I was losing weight before I was even like started walking with just. It's easy. It's just the hard part is identifying and making the brain stuff. That's all. That's the hard part. And I can identify it for me too. It took a while for me, and I think just sticking with it like it is anything in life. If you want to be good at something, just stick with it and you'll get good eventually. And I think that's where I was with kind of the working on the trauma stuff and the shame stuff.
John (00:24:57) - Yeah. And so if you've been inculcated in a certain way of being for 45 years, seven months to to break free isn't very long at all. Um, yeah, yeah. And just to, like, honor what a lot of people are feeling. And I know you felt this in the past two when you are. I'd say that the average state, the average set point of somebody who's dealing with really severe weight issues.
John (00:25:21) - They have tried calorie restriction and they failed and they feel like it's impossible. So when people tell them weight loss is simple, you just got to do this. They feel like mad at themselves, but also insulted at the idea. And I felt that way. I know you felt that way. So if anybody's having a lot of emotions hearing this very reductive approach, understand that, yes, it is about calorie deficit, but everything you find difficult about being in a calorie deficit is the mental stuff that we're talking about. You can find those pins that Mike is talking about. And when you pull those and certain apparatuses fall apart in your mind and all of a sudden you're free to do far more things in life, one of which is eat less and move more. And it's not it's not as onerous or painful as you experience it now. And that's why you'll be able to lose the weight.
Mike (00:26:11) - Yeah, 100%. Think that that's the whole thing, is it like once you figure it out. Once you figure out the problem is and not only the problem, but like.
Mike (00:26:22) - It's one thing to be like, yeah, like I said, like before I came to you, I was like, Yeah, I'm an emotional eater. That I think that's the problem. And that's what made me look to try to find somebody who addresses the problem. Like I identified the problem, which I think was a huge step for me. However, like. The. Okay, I'm an emotional eater. I still don't know what that means. And and then I don't know what that feels like. Like. Yeah, because I think that we're working with you is really beneficial. Was that you like. Because I didn't even realize at the time like, boredom is a feeling. It's like I didn't board them a lot or that I was just apathetic or any of these kind of feelings that we have that maybe are just not as obvious. Obviously, it's like, Oh, I'm angry or sad. It's like those are so easy to those are very easy for anybody who's not trying to identify.
Mike (00:27:17) - Right. But when you're bored, it's like, I need to do some recreation right now when like, with better recreation is the thing that I know how to do, that I know, like, does the job think of being able to identify those things mostly through when the trigger come right? Like, like, Oh, right now I really want to repeat this at once in one sitting. Okay, there's something else going on here, because I know that the real me doesn't want to do that. Like, I know that there's no part of me that wants to succeed and be the best person I can be and like no part of me wants. Except for this one little part that is like used to getting that. I think that when working with you is really it was one of the triggers was like, All right, I'm feeling this. What I'm feeling what feeling am I trying to, like, smooth over like a big not as rough on me? And then it was like. In the beginning, it was just like, nothing, this is stupid.
Mike (00:28:15) - It's like But then eventually it was like, Oh, like I'm tired right now. Like I like should be going to bed in an hour ago. And that's a feeling that my body is being like, make feel better. And so I think that was like it's all the whole process, every aspect of it when we work together was like, it all works together like a puzzle, you know, and different puzzle pieces that this thing lends to this thing, which lends to this thing, which is the value right? There it is. Yeah.
John (00:28:44) - And getting into talking about as we started working together. This kind of brings up the point of obviously shame is one of the first things we want to start to. It's like a negative feedback loop. Shame is and also our relationship to failure, our fear of failure and our sense of obligation toward a lot of things that we actually deep down want to do. But in our current state, because we've had so many bad experiences around it, like the shame was a big factor, but also the freedom to fail, I think was one thing that really surprised you When we started, I think even the first day when I gave you your tracking sheet, you asked me as we were signing off, you're like, But what about the days where I binge? And I said, write it down.
John (00:29:31) - Just put the number in 100%. And I remember that was the first thing where you were like. Like your brain almost couldn't, like, understand or believe what I was saying.
Mike (00:29:41) - Yeah. And I've taken that with me. So the last since I have been really the bulk of my weight loss this time has been since February, early February of this year, 2023. And it's October now, beginning of October. And so I have not I did not be. I was like, I had not binged at all. Right. Like and whenever however many months that is, six months or whatever it was and something that, you know, in the last month I had binged 4 or 5 times. But it was like when I was really in the thick of it, it was always like I was so afraid of like, the snowball effect, right? And like, but see that I was able in the last month to really it's different this time, right? Like I identify the feelings and used all the tools in my toolbox.
Mike (00:30:38) - But then it was like, Yeah, that's all right. You did the thing. You're still not £540, are you? It's like it's not you're there's no such thing as throwing it all away. It's not. That's not my thing. That's a made up thing. Big fun machine. It's like your shame. Shameful that you, like, broke this streak when, like. Yeah, but, like, who cares?
John (00:31:02) - It's just a story in your head.
Mike (00:31:03) - It's just the story. And I think that's a big thing that I've been dealing with in the last. Obviously, just for listeners to my life has gone through somewhat of like an upheaval in the last six months is in the middle of kind of changing careers a little bit. And and I'm obviously like working on I've lost a whole bunch of weight, but like I'm almost £170 down from my heaviest. But I think that this time around it's like very it's that black or white thinking, the kind of that puritanical American like you have to white knuckle everything.
Mike (00:31:42) - It's like, yeah, I ate a bunch of, you know, I ate a bunch of too much lunch, meat and cheese yesterday. Who cares? Like, I went for a walk today. I ate the lunch, the delicious lunch. That's like, you know, within my calorie count or whatever. And like, here I am just doing it again. It's like back on the horse.
John (00:32:03) - Yeah. Because you steal the significance away from the, quote unquote failures. Yeah. Because not only at first, it's just documenting it and learning that, oh my gosh, I can write down this number and John's not going to treat me any different. He's he's going to not even like react. And that's partially because we're just gathering data. I just want your brain to do it on its own, Right? I'm not I know I'm very careful not to make anyone feel judged because I don't want them to start hiding from me. You could roll up and be like, John, I've benched five times and strangled someone under a bridge.
John (00:32:32) - I'd be like, okay, you know.
Mike (00:32:34) - Because.
John (00:32:37) - Um, but then also, like. Through the process. For the first few months, you would go on and off binges and then at some point you had a relapse to where you were eating even more than when we started to wear truly stunning amounts of food, quite frankly. And it's impressive.
Mike (00:32:56) - I was pushing like 9000 calories in a day and 24 hours like it was. So very again, I'm a big dude, but even for a big chip, it's. It's a lot.
John (00:33:07) - Yeah. And so, like that almost like allowing yourself to fail and really just accepting that like, Oh, I'm going to fail because my brain is set up to do that. So why act surprised? Like just kind of stand at a remove and go, Of course I failed because my brain is still fixated on dumb stuff and I have a bunch of false beliefs like, okay, yeah. And so now as you, I didn't know that you'd been experiencing a sort of flare up, but I know how scared you were of something happening again.
John (00:33:42) - So I'm actually really super glad to hear that you've had a flare up and were able to be chill with it and that just go back through the steps and like it doesn't have the power. Even a pretty big fuckup doesn't have the power it used to have because you're at the wheel and it's not about what you did last. It's about what you're going to do next, right? And once you get that right, like you can screw up all the time and you can still have most of your goals.
Mike (00:34:08) - Oh, this is the coolest part of that whole understanding that it was such a huge because we had talked so much in the past about like the snowball effect, right? And like like binge really like 7000 calories one day and then the next day I'm just like, screw it. I did it yesterday. Like, I'll do it again today. And I think that like once you take away but that's all root in like the shame of doing the thing that that's all it is. It was relearned like she was her story.
Mike (00:34:40) - If you tell your head, you're telling yourself. So it's like once you get away with that, like I had emotional eating last Monday. Today is Monday, like a week ago. And then like I you know, at the gym, I had my weekly weigh on Friday. I lost £2. It's like I'm averaging like four. So it wasn't as much. But like I'm still at my personal trainer and personal trainer is like a good job. And I was like, Yeah, you don't know, like 5 or 6000 calories on Monday. And then like, it didn't matter. It's like the next day I was like, All right. There was some things quote unquote, failed on Monday. It doesn't affect anything I'm doing today. I enjoy the feeling I have when I get my daily walks and I like preparing my meals and like I like this new life. Who cares?
John (00:35:30) - Yeah, you've got to know who you are and you're able to maintain grounding and choose the things you truly prefer. And that's why so much of emotional eating isn't even about emotional eating or it isn't about the binging.
John (00:35:42) - It's about once I've binged, what's my relationship to myself? And once you repair that, it doesn't matter if you binge or not, because you've repaired your relationship with yourself. And now no matter what happens, you're going to continue to choose things that allow you to have the life you want.
Mike (00:35:58) - I think a really cool thought I had a couple of weeks ago was that when you're in the thick of it, right When I'm eating 7 to 10,000 calories a day after day and I'm £540, I think you have this and I'm sure all listeners have, but I've had that thought. It's like this will never end. This is how I will live. I will die when I'm 60 years old. If that is it, the end, right? And like this is always going to be a part of me, right? And it's like that negative thought, right? And I think the thing that I realized since I had I had given in to emotional eating this time and then frame of thought that I had this time, is it like, oh, this will probably always be a part of me, but it doesn't have to get in the way of anything.
Mike (00:36:41) - I want to achieve. Like like my brain at 45 years old is like knows that if I eat 5000 calories at once, it's going to numb some stuff. It's like whatever you're feeling, it knows that, like, that's as good as that's as good as like, opium. To me, it's like my brain knows that it will always. It will never forget that. But like, I think that how you react to that and like, what comes next is more important than the emotional eating. It's like, all right, you've done that. What comes next? Then I think that so you realize that before when you're in the thick of it, like I'll always be like this. This will never change. And like this defeatist attitude to this will probably always be a part of me. It doesn't matter that much when I think that's like, really, we're talking about like us working together and like, what I learned there. That's at the core, right? Like the core of the I was what was removed.
Mike (00:37:38) - There was the shame, right? Like, who gives a shit? Like, I don't like I messed up on last Monday and like, it's all right. I still lost £2 and I felt good The other days felt like crap that day. But the other day is I was like working out and eating healthy and sleeping great and like, all the things that come with do living the lifestyle you want to live, it's like 607 days. It was just like that. So we'll be all right.
John (00:38:04) - You know? Yeah, it's still there, but it's like the structure, isn't there? The blueprint is there, and that's the difference. Like it knows the blueprint for the prison, but the prison is not functionally a prison anymore. And you can choose to go in. You can choose to come out. And honestly, after you do the work for a while, it would take a whole lot of work actually to get back to where the prison was, anything resembling a prison. And so that's one of the things you have going for you, is that as you rebuild it, your sense of self, you're creating more and more like walls between you and the old behaviors.
John (00:38:38) - And you're just there's so many more things to enjoy in life than that life. So I wanted to ask you, I think it's also important for people to know that you, like many people, did not lose weight in our first six months together, which I usually do six month programs. And that's completely fine because the goal here isn't weight loss per se. It's getting the ship pointed toward a better life. And once you do that, then it's just a matter of time. So you had a pretty typical some people lose weight, some people don't. So what do you think shifted for you around that half year mark where things started to click?
Mike (00:39:13) - Right. So I would say that I think a really a benefit that I had was. That identified the emotional eating as being the underlying source before. Right. So like. I knew at some point it took me 45 or 44 years to realize it at that point. But like, I got to stick with Summer. It's like. Don't give up on this because this is the problem.
Mike (00:39:37) - But I think that. I think coming into it, I was like and a lot of the things that my my approach to things without weight loss while I was still like binge eating like daily I could definitely see that other aspects of my psyche were being were positively influenced, right? So it's like. Yeah, I still. I still ordered $100 in GrubHub or something. Like something. Something that I had a lot of shame for. But as I was doing it, as we were working through things, I was like, All right, well, do it because you're going to do it anyway. Whether you say whether you want to or not, like whether whether you're approving of it or not, but just identify your surroundings, right? Like be aware, hyper aware of like, all right, how am I feeling? Okay. Why did I do that? Why did I do that? Like, what was the impulse was like, what? How was I When did it start? That's a big one.
Mike (00:40:35) - Like, did it start? Like when I woke up? Was it? And then you realize like, oh, I was stewing on this for like two days and I was white knuckling the whole time. And then finally it was like, of course I broke down and did this because, like. I was I never addressed the thing that was the problem was like doing for all this time. And and I think that during that six months with a lot of like it's like it was the practice in that that's a big thing. It was like it only took us 2 or 3 sessions to actually like identify some to give me some really powerful tools in my toolbox. Right. But like, it took that much time. To do that. But then it took another however many months to like this kind of practice. It's like I'd be aware, like if you're going to if you're going to if you're going to do this emotional eating or binge eating, get something out of it. Like get the knowledge out of it.
Mike (00:41:29) - Figure something else out. Like, oh, like one thing I didn't even realize is like. Until I was like being betrayed her for me as being sleepy. That's why I was like, not all the time, but a lot of the time when I'm like eating late at night, it's like I should have been doing it instead of like, I have a set bedtime at 11:00. That's when I go to bed every single night and I won't deviate from that thing. It's like your days are different, man. Could better. 930. It's like that hour and a half. I like, broke down at eight a bunch of food that didn't want to because I was sleeping. It's like there was a feeling that my body wanted to wanted to soothe. I think that was the six months was just a lot of like, it's horror. That's a hard that's a hard part that's not pulling the pin the the like practicing like I'm in the moment. What do I need to do in the moment to get something good out of this? Oh, I need to be aware.
Mike (00:42:22) - I need to realize that this is where when it started, like, where's the chain of this kind of feeling come from? Was it immediate? Sometimes it's immediate. Boredom isn't immediate, but like, sleepy is like maybe you only got like an hour or two run away or something, but like some of the bigger stress work, stress is like that's a week, a month like, but that's coming. But so I think being able to identify all that stuff was like the practice of doing that before. Yeah, but also I should say another element that we've talked about is not only like the dealing with the stress, but like, like limiting stress and like there's like eliminating those stressors that those triggers, like that was a huge part of it too. And we talked about that a lot. And it's like. My job saw. When I was like this whole time, I was leaning about like, I don't really like what I'm doing. Like the whole year that we were together, I don't really like what I'm doing, but like, it would usually be like five minutes, at least in the beginning of our session of just being bitching about how horrible my job is.
Mike (00:43:23) - And then and so like in in February or January, it's like, don't do that job anymore. And so like, they made it honestly, they made it a lot easier is that I didn't have to. Part of it is like you have all these stressors. You have to like deal with your sets, with your set of tools that you've developed working together. But some of it's like, maybe I'd just get rid of that stressor and then that'll like and we had talked about that too, is that you were like your clients in the past had been like, how many of them had just like flipped the script. On being changing their lives outside of food. It's like you're outside of this thing. It's just like the amount of times that you had mentioned. Like you're like, it's so typical when somebody feels like they can take control of this thing and they have like more power over it. It's like, Yeah, by the way, I don't have to do this stupid job at anymore. You know that Like, it makes me on Sunday night just dread my life being up at Monday in the morning.
Mike (00:44:19) - So. Yeah, just don't do that. Yeah, it's hard. Easier said than done, but there's a way to figure out the way. I think that was the long answer to what went on in that phone. Yeah.
John (00:44:31) - Yeah, yeah. We're talking in general terms, but there are very practical, detailed ways that I taught Mike how to experience his emotional eating differently so that he would have an actual experience of it, which that's one of the things about compulsive behavior, is that we're often not really aware while we're doing it, we go away while the compulsion kicks in. And when we actually experience this thing that is ostensibly based in experience, we're ostensibly trying to experience something that food is giving us. But when you actually do it, you start to see a different reality, and that's what starts to pull this all apart. It's not about willpower or discipline. It's about really learning. Yeah, things did change for you. Describe for us just a little bit about the like the nuts and bolts journey.
John (00:45:18) - What did you start doing? You said you originally just started limiting calories. Can you talk about like what shifted in your eating as far as like, how did you easily go from 7000 or 9000 calories a day down to like 2500 and like really enjoy it?
Mike (00:45:33) - So I would say the first step is the first thing that you have to do is as long as everything in my fitness pal. Right? Like. Even. I think the way that I had treated that app or anything like that, like just logging and being tracking was like, Well, like, look at all this. Look at all this good food. I ate under 2500 calories. Look at me and picture of hell, right? And then when when I was binging, it'd be like, I'm not going to log all that. That's not part of my healthy journey. It's like which is we started the opposite way, which was like, log all your videos long, every single thing you put in your mouth. Don't be ashamed.
Mike (00:46:09) - That was the first step. Is identifying information. Can't lose by having more information. Right. And this and this. Right. Like log everything. And then I think that. I think the way that we had started is being like, Ah, you're eating an average and it would show an average. John Maybe a spreadsheet that would do seven, seven day average of like how many calories have you eat in a week because one day doesn't matter, right? Like think that was a really big eye opener and it'd be like, oh ruin the whole idea of I ruined my diet. This one time is the stupidest thing in hindsight. It's like it's not how your body, like your body doesn't. It works on like large averages of maybe seven, maybe five days or something like that. But like, look at that. And it should. I think that the way it started was when you would want to start like, let's just be 500 calories or 5000 calories or if it was 7000 less than that, right? Like just threw a 3500 calories or 4000 calories.
Mike (00:47:07) - And I think I started that and then immediately went down to 2000 calories. Right. Like. I felt like it's all I always my Mo is like I always feel like I do really well when I think I have a silver bullet. Right? It's like, Oh, I figure this thing out. This is the fix me just the way kiddo did. Just the way that like eating the veggie burgers twice a day, that everything. When I was a teenager, my mom making me all the food. Those are the silver bullets those fixed me and think that we went through the first process was think have like a month of like eating 2000 calories a day. And I'll be and I remember talking to you and being like. Oh, this is a Skippy forever. And then you, like, you didn't want to dissuade me, right? Because, like, why dissuade somebody who's, like, doing something that's for making them proud of himself. But, like, you know, I'm a smart dude.
Mike (00:47:58) - Like, I picked up on, like, just wait and see, buddy. Like, if this isn't gonna get fixed. But I think that like, eventually that I went back and binged and that was another 3 or 4 months before I came again. But I think that like. At the beginning, it was always like only 3000 calories. And then just logging everything. And I think I got it down to I'm eating now, I'm eating between like 21 and 2400 calories. And that's like But see, I don't know. I have like this. It took me a while to like it took me a while to like hone it in, right? So like at the beginning, I'm not a breakfast guy. Like, I just don't have when I wake up, it takes me like 2 or 3 hours to be like, want to eat food? Just don't have it. It's just a weird stomach thing or nausea thing. And then I was only eating two meals a day, right? Like I was eating two 1112 hundred calorie meals a day for lunch and then dinner and then and I found like it wasn't so much like I was eating the same thing every day.
Mike (00:49:02) - It ended up that way only. Only because I'm like, really? Like that more? Yeah. It wasn't like I will only eat the veggie burgers every day. It's like when veggie burgers are gross, right? Like, but, but when it was, I had an option of groceries, like groceries, like a normal person. Like, I think I will enjoy some of this week like which is was new to me.
John (00:49:25) - And you could go grocery shopping when we first started together. No bears mentioned.
Mike (00:49:30) - But yeah, also because of the shame of being like didn't believe that this wasn't a good thing to to mention. I didn't leave the house for 18 months once right before we were here. So like, I was, I'm like the definition of a recluse during that time. Mostly a shame because of being £540. It's like, Yeah, who wants little kids to point at the six, 4 or £540 guy to go, What the hell is that? Like, you're like, which they do.
Mike (00:49:57) - They're little kids, right? Like, they like they've seen somebody my size. So like, I didn't leave the house. So it's really interesting. It's like 2019. I hadn't left the house for like 7 or 8 months. And then the pandemic hit. Yeah. And so then it was like I always tell the joke that, oh, during the pandemic I realized that the way I live my life is called quarantine. So, like, so I actually during the pandemic and then after that, it was like 18 months of didn't leave. I literally didn't leave the threshold of my front door, my car. It's not a driveway like the battery. I open the battery, the hood up and the battery had ballooned with blue foam because just like it hadn't been turned over, all was to. Oh, my gosh. So, like. So I think that's like kind of an important place to start with. Like the whole when you mentioned I didn't go grocery shopping before, I was like, I didn't do anything.
Mike (00:50:53) - I was like, GrubHub is exclusively like. And but yeah, the what I'm eating is like I just tweaked it until. Like I found something I liked that was filling and, like, satisfying. Everything I eat is delicious. Like, I don't also have a background and being I was a line cook for ten years before I went back to school. It's like I know how to like the basics of like put salt and pepper in that one. So it's like I know the basics of cooking, but like, like I don't, like, I don't like the way that really starchy things make me feel like a cod crash sometimes. Like when I eat, like, a real like. Pass a thing. But if. If you did make me feel that way, he'd like it. Don't. It's not the food, but like you like cottage cheese in the morning because I like it. Thanks. My thanks to my depression era grandmother who helped raise me. So like I'm a big I'm a big fan of cottage cheese and sardines.
Mike (00:51:54) - Just old school stuff like that. But eat the chicken tenders and I have guacamole like pre-made guacamole for lunch and it's delicious. I enjoy it every time. I've even, like, started to get, like, the skinny girl dressings that are like ten calories for 20g. They like a honey mustard. That's really good. I put it in there and like and then for dinner, I switch it up. I'll have like a vegetable, a starch and a protein. Like it's like. And then I like every once in a while I go out to I still go out to dinner with my friends and I might I eat the loaded baked potato and got to the steakhouse like and I ordered a 16 ounce steak. And it's like, is it over my calories? Yeah. Who gives a crap? And like I had a great time chat with my friends and I'll have a beer like then the next day I don't restrict anymore. Right. Like the next day. I'm not like 3200 calories. Today. I'm only going to eat 1500.
Mike (00:52:49) - No, just like just whatever. They just go back to the thing. So that's like what I eat. It's like just whatever I want, but I want to eat those things. I know they're healthy for me and it makes me feel good and proud to be doing that. But also, like don't want to eat something that's gross. Like I don't like I like vegetables, but not like all of them. I don't eat those vegetables. Yeah, like kale is gross. Sorry for all those kale lovers out there. It's not good. It's like, real fibrous. And you have to, like, cook the crap out of it to make it edible. No, thank you.
John (00:53:25) - Yeah. So much of this is finding out what you really want and then doing that. And that's the most sustainable way of living your life. Let's talk about activity real quick and then I want to get into creativity and stuff and then we'll wrap it up. Yeah, sure. So, yeah, tell us about your journey physically, because when we first started walking around wasn't really an easy thing.
John (00:53:45) - Like many people out there, you had mobility issues and you weren't able to really exercise. So tell us how you got from where you were to where you are now.
Mike (00:53:53) - So I start I played high school for football. Being my size, like couldn't avoid the football team, right? Like teachers, always one of his coaches on camera. So I play football and basketball in high school until I messed my knees up in 10th grade for two years. So I had been like somewhat active and I enjoy some sport, but like it had been. It had been like I hadn't been active in 15, 20 years. I think that the first step was. Think it was just a walking like it's like. And the coolest thing about it in like looking back on it is that it really doesn't have to be much to get it started, right? Like think for the first, like two months. I only walked for like 15 minutes. Like you was just something. It's more think it for me with the exercise.
Mike (00:54:46) - And now just if I walk like six days a week, I'll walk like an hour. But I also do like my family for Christmas last year and for my birthday this year. Personal trainer, which is like super. I could afford like. But now I go to a personal trainer four days a week like I'm getting. Ten hours of exercise a week, which is pretty decent. But it all started with like best 15 minutes walk every day ish. Six, five days a week. Like when it was raining. Didn't go out. Didn't go out of my way to say I want to go for a walk today. Oh, it's raining out. Oh, I'm not I'm not going to, like go walk in the rain or like the old people go walk around the mall or anything like that. It's like they just won't do it today. But just like I think slowly, that just became a part of my life. Like I want to walk today, didn't I? Just because I enjoyed it.
Mike (00:55:39) - Like I listened to like audible and have like a listen to music. I'm also like a musician, so sometimes I'll like record something and go, Listen, I'll go instead of just sitting here listening to it over and over again to see if I like it or see what changes can be made. I'll just go for an hour a walk and like play it on repeat and see. It's just like. And I thought it was weird because like, why don't I want to exercise? And it's like, it's because you're trying to, like, go from not exercising in 15 years to like doing a four day a week training program that involves heavy weights and like, it's like, that's not that's the white knuckle, right? Like, you know, it's the same thing as like the I will not I will only 1200 calories today after you've been eating 4000 calories for the last like three years. It's like, no you won't. He only just for a little bit. So I think that just like getting out there, putting the shoes on, putting the step lock.
John (00:56:35) - And coming back if you have to.
Mike (00:56:37) - Walking down the street, like whatever, don't make him feel uncomfortable on yourself. It's like. Like I have the loop around my neighborhood that is about a mile. And I think the first time that mile took me like 30 minutes because I was like, Well, sucks. And now I'm like, too far away to turn back. It's quicker and it's like closer to go the whole way. But now it's like my lap is I walk two of those a day. It just feel and also I will say this as far as like noticeably when you get when you start integrating, exercising or just walking into your life, you realize that we don't do that. You're more susceptible to those emotions. And like the triggers of the three or 4 or 5 times that identity in the last like month or so have all been days. When was like when it was raining out and I couldn't walk or like didn't exercise. Like when I exercise, it does a good job of like in just the walking and not much.
Mike (00:57:33) - It's enough to like help me just. Deal with those emotions a little easier. So, yeah, it's part of my life now. I also my, my my birthday present is almost up my training sessions. So, like, I've already started working on my trainer, like, how am I going to do this outside? It's not. It's mostly like it's mostly like body exercises, right? Like, it's not even all these equipment. Like, he has me doing push ups and, like, squats, weightless squats and like, a bunch of stuff that can totally do in my bedroom. So I'm pretty excited about that too.
John (00:58:09) - Yeah, people would be astonished if they knew how much they could do with their body weight. And quite frankly, even people who can't do a push up, there's regression. You can do a push up against the wall and slowly I don't.
Mike (00:58:19) - Do I don't do real push ups. I'm still £366 like and I have a long, long arms. So it's like so I still do the I've moved from the knee push ups to like the on the bench push up.
Mike (00:58:33) - So it's like it's just a little bit right, Like, but, but yeah, when I started my, my training, my first training session, I can only admit it, I can only do 12 knee push ups and now I'm like doing four sets of ten easy and then to the point where it's like, what triggers like, Oh, you got you can't do that anymore. Like you're you've graduated from that. Now you have to do the monkey pitch. And I'm like, Oh, I'm gonna do it for you. But.
John (00:59:00) - But eventually that gets addictive.
Mike (00:59:02) - Oh, 100%. Like I definitely, I definitely am. I am excited to go to the gym, which was something I never thought I would say, right? Like I'm definitely the person to be like, Exercise sucks. But now it's like. I don't know. My day is worse if I don't. It's not bad necessarily, right? Like, I don't have bad days when I don't exercise. But like, this wouldn't have been better.
Mike (00:59:29) - I would have been able to enjoy this more. I would have had a less stress. I would have just I would have felt just the feeling of accomplishment. You get to be like. Oh, yeah, but I didn't do any. I'm sitting here and watch a binge watching this TV show. A show I've already seen before. And don't feel bad about it because I burned a thousand calories today. It's like I burn like I walked in, I went to the gym. It's like, Oh, yeah. And I did something. I don't know. It's like we incorporate in your life. You start to really notice when it's not there.
John (01:00:02) - Yeah. And like it's the other side of the coin of if you start to eat too much again and like, let's say you notice that you're saying no to your workout schedule or whatever it is, you just sit back and go, okay, when did I stop wanting to do this thing that I like to do? And you just start to ask yourself questions the next time you go, okay, time to go to the gym and you feel something and you go, Oh no, you sit with it and go, okay, what's going on here? Like what? What's so bad about the gym? And you just ask questions and eventually you get answers and it helps you go, Oh, okay, this is what went out of balance.
John (01:00:36) - And yeah, you can. It's not about forcing yourself to do anything. It's maintaining awareness and presence and being able to understand when things are going out of balance so you can allow them to shift back into balance. And mostly it really is like allowing it to happen, not not so much forcing. Right. So speaking of.
Mike (01:00:56) - Go ahead, Joanne.
John (01:00:58) - So speaking of being more active, one thing that's really important for people who are letting go of emotional eating, there's still a process of rebuilding, a new sense of self. And one of the ways you do that is through creativity. And when we first if anybody who's watching the video version can maybe guess where we're going here, because Mike has, I would say conservatively, 15 guitars.
Mike (01:01:25) - Nailed it.
John (01:01:27) - Oh, nice 15 guitars on the wall. And when we first talked, I asked him how much he played, and he's like, I don't really touch those anymore. And so he wasn't just like being a hermit inside of his house. He was being a hermit inside of his own experience of what it is to be.
John (01:01:44) - Mike And I've experienced this. I know most of my clients have when it came time to be more creative. Mike started playing music again. And so just tell us about that journey and tell us where it's ended up. And because I think that's a great note to end on, as long as your plans are still the same as what they were.
Mike (01:02:03) - All feeling right now.
John (01:02:04) - Okay.
Mike (01:02:05) - This is a very quick backstory played in punk rock bands in my 20s. Did some like Out of Town stuff? I wouldn't call it tours, but like we played. I mean, I live in North Carolina. We played like Pittsburgh, Florida, and like all around North Carolina. And so it was like at the time, it's what I wanted to do, right? Like I want it to be this thing. And then there was some regression to my thought. This kind of like fake thought that like, it's time to grow up and go back to school and be more professional and straitlaced, Right? But like the MC of punk rock, 20s was like, you can't wasn't easily repressed, right? Like I went to bed, went to school and got a professional job and, like, did a thing and made decent money and everything.
Mike (01:02:51) - But the whole time I was like miserable. And then, like John said, I was overweight and a recluse and kind of all this stuff. And then it was like, I, we are single guy with no kids and you have a good salary. It's like you start collecting things that you like, right? Shut up. So I was so I just started playing guitar. But like I always I would love to learn, get I'm not really a guitarist. I'm a bass player. Like, that's what I was in my 20s and I would like not very good guitar, but I wanted to start playing guitar because I really love I love writing songs and I had been starting to learn guitar but like very intermittently, which is not the way you would practice guitar, right? Like practice anything, right? Like I'd play it once a week. You're never going to get good. So when we met and I was like, No, I was in that kind of once a week picking one up and being like or whatever.
Mike (01:03:42) - I'd started being like. I don't know. Thinking more seriously about it, maybe not the doing in the beginning, right? Like when we started, I was like, I would love to. We talked a lot about like, you know, in the beginning we talked about like, who's the person you want to be, right? Like, what do you want? When I remember that's where the five minute Bitch festival, my job would show up, right? It would be like, I know I don't want to do this. It was like, oh, but 45 year old played punk rock like. Like, oh, that's a that's silly. And then you were you would always be like, why is it silly? Like, why does it have to be silly? That's like. And it'd be like, what will people think? All the all my professional friends on social media would think. And then it would be like when I'd say those words out loud, I'd be like, It would be silly to me.
Mike (01:04:28) - It's like. Like, yeah, who gives a shit? They think like, if I'm happy, who cares? Who cares what they think? And I still struggle with today. It's being like since then. We started writing more when I was working with John and be more creative and it was like felt work hard, right? Like I would write these songs and have like a really nice computer set up with this audio interface, which is like an eight input and phrase. So I can like, I can record like tar the baseline of like the electronic drum set up on my computer and like I can do a whole song with vocals. Like here's a fancy microphone there and like, I can do all this stuff by myself and just track record it. So I started writing songs or recording them, and then like I had written a bunch. And then I think as the updates now and it's the most fulfilling thing, right? I would love right now. It's still very hobby ish as I am in career thing, but I'm taking it very seriously and saying yes to anything I can.
Mike (01:05:30) - If it turns into something that doesn't have to be a hobby, it's like pursuing that. It's like extremely fulfilling to do and very much helped this process, right? Like, it's like it's like when you're creating something that's coming from your brain, it's very much like a validation almost. It's like it's my professional life. It's like the paycheck. And the validation of your peers is what you're looking for, right? Or like what I was looking for. And it's like one I think a job could test it. Like if I'm searching for the paycheck, then like, maybe that is extremely outside of my character. It's like looking for something that is that is I never have given a shit about. It's like, but making myself care about that is not the way to do it. And the Pierce thing will never come, right? Because like, especially, my career path was very competitive and they would there's not a lot of like Out of Boys, right? This is like a Ryan song and it's awesome.
Mike (01:06:32) - And I showed somebody and somebody was like, Wow, that's really good. And it's like, Yeah, I created that out of nothing. It's like it's like very validating and very satisfying. And so the update is, Can.
John (01:06:43) - We just do before.
Mike (01:06:44) - You come back.
John (01:06:45) - Can we just mention that you stepped out of your comfort zone and actually started a band?
Mike (01:06:50) - Oh, yeah, that's the update.
John (01:06:51) - Okay. Okay.
Mike (01:06:52) - So, yeah, when I cover Zone, it was I started a band. I have a four piece band who's playing my songs and we have our first show in four weeks from now at the festival and we practice two days a week and it's getting tight and it sounds good. And there's a lot of hype around us because one of the members of Kit is a very popular person in this town. And I don't know, looking like like things are coming to fruition now. And it's starting to sound like we've been recording our practices and everything and it sounds like, wow, this is getting really tight and really good.
Mike (01:07:27) - So yeah, it's that's why I've been practicing for nonstop for the last like three weeks with this show. And it's like, all right, now we have to get good. So like, which is something that we had talked about but also a guitar teacher and he was the guy who was like, I think in unison, you guys were in the same thing at the same.
John (01:07:47) - He's a cool guy, sounds like.
Mike (01:07:48) - Yeah. And he was like saying, you both were saying like, we have all these songs and you're getting better guitar. So when are you going to get a band? I was not ready for that. It's like, No, I'm not there yet. And then you both were like, Yeah, just do it. Just. Just do that thing like you'll find members. What's the worst that could happen? And then I was like, basically when I got that person, they were. And then when we got the song couple of songs together, my guitar teacher was like, Yeah, book a show.
Mike (01:08:15) - Now I'm like, Ease your roll, buddy. Like, we're not there yet. And it's like, No, just do it. You trust me? And he was right. It's just like, if you make the commitment, you'll live up to it. It's like you have a deadline. Like we booked the show a month ago, and it's like, we've just been practicing a bunch, and now we're to a point where, like, I'm feeling pretty confident. At the beginning I was like, scared out of my skull thinking about, like, I'm gonna go up there, embarrass myself. Some 45 year old at a punk rock show being like, This guy can't play guitar and his band's horrible. But now we've been like, We had a goal and now it's like we bent over backwards to try to meet the goal. And so now we practiced a bunch and started it sound tight and we have another four weeks that's going to polish everything up.
John (01:08:58) - When you when we first started, I remember you saying talking about music and what would you want to play music again? And I remember you did something that a lot of people do.
John (01:09:07) - They have a sense of something that they do want to get back into, say, traveling or whatever it is. And you said maybe after I'm like £350, maybe after I get past a certain point, I'll do that. And that's partially what was going on in your head. I think when the guitar teacher was saying like, book a show, go for it. Oh yeah, because there's these arbitrary we all have these arbitrary boundaries and like, Oh, we'll live life after we get there. And it's we think that it's because that's what we'll be capable of, but it's actually what we're giving ourselves permission to do based on shame and stuff like that. It's funny that by opening up to it, when you are still far from 350, now you go by the numbers and quite possibly you're going to step on stage at 348.
Mike (01:09:54) - Yeah. So and it's funny, the funny thing about that though, is that so my brain, my all or nothing, my shame was in the beginning you were like, Why don't you get a band? Right? And I was like, I couldn't see myself playing a show until I was like, lost all of the weight, right? Like, I want to be my test.
Mike (01:10:12) - And like, you convinced you, I'm not going to see you trick to me, if there's a softer word for a trick, it's like you were being like, Yeah, but you're a tall guy. Like 350 isn't that big? Like, you could tell at the time, I was, like, £500. So, like, you painted a picture, £350 six for my being like, that's not so bad. Yeah. Guess 350 is fine. Like, like at the beginning it was like, I need to be 20 and wearing a size 36 pants before I go up on stage. And then it was like.
John (01:10:42) - I don't remember that. I don't remember that. I come up with 350.
Mike (01:10:45) - I was like, No, it has to be like, I want to be. I want to be the best we could do in the world up on stage. And you were like like. Finger tall like three of you isn't that much. And I was like, Yeah, you're probably right.
Mike (01:10:59) - I guess because there'd be a time it was like £5. Like 350 was like so removed from where I was. I was like, shit in my head. I went, Sure, like, yeah, whatever you say, buddy. But then it's like 366 now and I have four weeks. So it's like if you look at the numbers, I'll be right around that time that that frame anyway, so.
John (01:11:24) - It's not important but it's just funny that. Yeah.
Mike (01:11:26) - No, not important at all. If that was 370, it'd probably be the same situation but are still still between the guy on stage. The different thing about this too that should tell is that I always played bass before in my other band. Well, we play a bunch of shows now. I'm like down the front man too, and I've never done that.
John (01:11:42) - So you're going to sing and play guitar for the first time.
Mike (01:11:45) - Writing the song, singing and playing guitar all at once. And that is like a new thing. Not only am I getting up on stage in front of everybody, I'm guaranteeing that everyone's looking at me and it's like, whereas if you're a bass player, it's like if you want to hide as a bass player.
Mike (01:12:03) - That's a good place for it. It's like you can take a step back from the front and play your bass and there's not many eyes on you, but like, yeah, you can't do that as a frontman.
John (01:12:13) - So just to track from where you were, where you started, about £500 went up to about five 49,000 calories a day. Pretty sure you were never going to be any different. And here you are about a year and a half later, about 415, 16 months later. 366 You have a band, you're playing music, you're writing music, you're polishing the music, and then you're going to get up in front of hundreds of people and sing and play guitar, even though you've never done it before. It's just it's just wild. It's just like it's absolutely wild.
Mike (01:12:49) - Yeah, it's wild to me too. And yeah, like, first of all. There's a part of me. I have a competitive streak, right? I want to do my best. And, like, part of me wants to acknowledge, part of me acknowledges, like a very proud of myself.
Mike (01:13:03) - And I've gotten this far. But then part of me is like, I'm done. Nothing yet. It's like I had done the thing yet, so I don't know. It's maybe something I'm still like dealing with to be like acknowledge the things that I've accomplished so far. Just like if you look at local bands, right, which I would be it's not like I'm not like throwing a tourist tomorrow or anything. As local bands, a lot of it's hurting themselves is the hardest part. It's like writing a good song is like I came to the table with that. I already had my three originals and just because that's what I enjoyed doing. Yeah. And so like myself on the back for that, it's like, Oh, I really did put this stuff together and it sounds good. But then on the other side, like, I have four weeks until I play the show like. I'm still I'm still battling in my head, like, totally just follow my face and bloody nose and like, cry or something.
Mike (01:13:54) - Just the worst case scenario, which won't happen. And it's like it's not bad.
John (01:13:58) - But, but even if it does, even if it was a huge disaster, the kind of person you are now makes that irrelevant. Yeah.
Mike (01:14:05) - Plus, I'm in punk rock, so it'd be cool to. It's very liberating being in a genre of music that like, forgives a lot and, like, thinks that. In other people like thinks that if you fail but on purpose it's pretty cool. So like just play it off because I did that on purpose. What are you talking about? Like, it's definitely like a backdoor exit to everything.
John (01:14:30) - As we wrap up, do you have any last words for anybody listening? And specifically, what would you say to someone who is if I can do a shameless plug, who's like thinking about getting a coach? But they're like, Ah, this is expensive. And it's a big commitment. I don't know if I'm going to if I spend this money, I might fail and I'll feel stupid.
John (01:14:49) - Like, What would you say to someone who's like, considering this and thinks it might be the right thing for them?
Mike (01:14:53) - So the one thing I was considering a long time was the money, right? Because it's not nothing. And like but I would say this is like I was weighing the options to being like. Was spending close to $100 a day on food. And I would imagine that somebody who's in the same situation is like. It dropped a lot of money. If you add all that verse, a coach and not that the one's going to stop and one's going to start like this. I find it worse financially, but like if you want to. I think that's first like the first step if you truly want to do. If you have to want to do it right. Like it's like trying to throw somebody in rehab who has a drug problem who doesn't want there. It's like they're not going to they're not going to want to do it right. They're going to come out and find the second score.
Mike (01:15:38) - Right. But like, if you truly want to do it and you're like, I do not want to be heavy anymore, I do not want to like have this type of coping mechanism. It's like there's no amount of money. Right if you can be like and I'm not saying telling people that like Johns are guaranteed win like money back guarantee or something like that. But like. For me, the way I think about things, it seemed the closest that I could get to what's out there, what I've tried before, and. I would say that like, there's no amount of money, right? Like to make that give me the tools to be able to do that. It would have been like if I had it and you charge twice as much, I would have paid it because of where I am now. And like the way I live my life and the way the way that my brain works now is like exponentially better. And it's like, what could you give for not only losing weight, which is like, that's what everybody thinks the goal is, right? But like, how what would you give to be able to deal with stresses better and also along the way, deal with like your health problems, Like my blood sugar is like normal and like the step counter who tracked my heart rate and have a record of my heart rate.
Mike (01:16:52) - My resting heart rate is ten beats lower than it was eight months ago. Wow. Yeah. Like. If you were lining up all the benefits, which could line up the whole sheet, a whole page of benefits. If you could say like you could pay X amount of dollars and all of that stuff will be if not, you're quote unquote cured or on the path to that. How many would you pay all that? It's like. To me. And I guess in hindsight, the easiest way to do that. But it's like in hindsight, it's like no brainer would have done it 20 years ago. It's like this is as normal, quote unquote normal. As I've ever felt like. Wow. So it's like I know so many people who, like, deal with emotional eating and being obese and the whole on the whole line. I think it was like, Man, I wish I was normal. I know. That's a thought. I know it's like, oh, if I can only be normal, it if I can only control my appetite if my appetite is normal.
Mike (01:17:53) - It's like, would you identify the problem and then move to the next step and then, like, work through the program? It's like, this is normal as I've ever felt. And like I said, I did emotional eating last week and it's like. The tools they gave me like it was in its normal. It's like I feel it's normal. I feel normal. I did it. It's not bad. I wish I wouldn't have, but, like, don't feel bad about it. Moved on and then went for my walk or eat my chicken tenders.
John (01:18:21) - Yeah, they're still balanced. Like you drove the car across the line into the rumble strip, but like, the wheels are still on and everything. Oh, right, right.
Mike (01:18:28) - I crash into the mountain and I'm like. And they'd be like, They just looked at my car go, Oh, guess I'll live here now.
John (01:18:35) - Or you get a flat tire and then light the car on fire because I've already ruined my diet.
Mike (01:18:40) - This crap.
John (01:18:43) - Mike, thank you so much for taking the time as awesome to catch up and see that you're doing well. And yeah man, thank you so much for sharing your journey so vulnerably with all the people listening. Really appreciate the pleasure.
Mike (01:18:54) - My pleasure.
John (01:18:55) - We'll talk to you soon. See you. Take care, man.